Wednesday, July 24, 2024

PS - The Scriptures Upon Which Sonya Massey Based Her "Rebuke" Prayer


I added them to the post below, but I wanted to add them here, as well as a little blurb about why I left the fundamentalism/charismatic evangelical church years ago. 

So again, right before the deputy shoots her - for holding a pot of boiling water, to put it in the sink - Sonya says: 

"I rebuke you, in the name of Jesus."

For those who didn't grow up in/aren't familiar with the charismatic evangelical denomination - this is NOT rebuking a person - this is rebuking a spirit in the situation, usually the "spirit of fear."


This utterance is a sort of prayer, and it's based on assumptions that have been made about:

1 Timothy 1:7: "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear, but of power, of love, and of a sound mind" - the assumption being made that the "spirit" of fear then comes from Satan ...


...  as well as Mark 16:17-18  17] And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;  [18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."


Thus, sometimes it's a rebuke Satan himself, using fear - but considering the deputy had just mentioned fear of the water, and she herself was clearly afraid, she was likely rebuking the spirit of fear in the situation. 

Either way, it is meant as a prayer of protection over everyone in the situation.


Regardless, clearly, the "prayer" did not work ...😢


Thus, part of why I'm not charismatic evangelical anymore, since 1988  (though my mother still is).

After going agnostic/atheist for a while, I'm now Episcopalian since 2007.

I had to change what I expected God to do in my life versus how I had been raised. 

And unfortunately, I have found prayers like this do not work -  not just for me, or Sonya, but anyone, really.

Sometimes the situation changes, for which charismatic evangelicals credit their rebuke/God, but it may have nothing to do with either, and it's not often that it works.

Why is that? 

Well, we've either: 

A) Mistranslated Mark 16 from the original Koine Greek - for example, the Catholic church has translated this to mean only apostles and saints; thus, only ordained priests or saints can heal the sick, cast out Satan/evil, etc.
B) Misunderstood Mark 16 and/or made assumptions. 
C) Misapplied it.  Negative prayer against things almost never works, but positive prayer for things might work.

 

Because we don't always see the full story, the bigger picture, the background of who and what we're dealing with. 
They could be evil, or even temporarily being influenced by negative spiritual energy - OR - they might be dealing with great amounts of psychosocial emotional stressors or even mental illness. 
D) Took too much personal control over things we can't control. Because despite attributing power to God, we're actually giving ourselves the false illusion of power and control over situations beyond our control.
E) Underestimated the power of free-will choicewhich God gave us and he will not take back - despite negative spiritual energy/Satan being in a situation.
F) None of this is real/true, it's a fairly tale and impossible.



At this point in my life, I'm going with options A, B, C, D, and E - heavily on E especially - because we know what we're supposed to do, but we still choose against it, we sometimes step right over those cues within the situation telling us we shouldn't, in favor of ourselves and our own agenda, whether those cues are truly spiritual or not, just our conscience, basic morality.

For example, the deputy chose to ignore his training and ignore those cues, spiritual or not, and do what he wanted to do anyway.


And sometimes I still do wonder about F, I'll be honest - most intelligent people do - and if God exists, he/she/they can handle that and expect that. 


Also, I do think there's something to be said about "negative" prayer against things versus positive prayer for things - because negative does draw negative, as we know, but this is just a theological, philosophical idea, so weak points for letter C.


Stronger points for A, because I do know that we've mistranslated or omitted important context through the bible, while we were chopping up the bible at the Councils of Nicene and Trent, which we've done with many things, and which is also what leaves people guessing.

Thus, I don't know if the acts in Mark 16 necessarily have to be done by an ordained priest, but it's worth a shot if you're in trouble? 😂

But it also might depend on the priest or the person.

Because scripture also says there a different spiritual gifts for different people I Corinthians 12:7-14


7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b] 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines. 
12 Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by[c] one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.

Though Paul said it, rather than Christ himself, he seems to clarify Christ's words in Mark 16 a bit more, that the spirit of tongues may be a gift to one, healing to another,  prophesy to another, spiritual discernment to another, etc.  

NOT that we should listen to everything Paul said, because sometimes he directly contradicted Christ - but in this case, he's not contradicting Christ, he's breaking down into specifics those gifts as individual gifts according to each person.

Nevertheless, it would appear that he believes these gifts can be given to anyone within the body of the church, just like there are parts of the body contributing to the whole, not just the ordained?

Which is another reason I left the charismatic evangelical faith.


I could write a whole list here of why, but basically, I didn't believe that everyone who thought God spoke to them personally, really was, nor did I think everyone in the church should be speaking tongues or prophesying, based on I Corinthians.  

In fact, I got in an argument with my youth minister about it, after I asked a question about this scripture during a bible study, after he insisted everyone who was truly filled with the spirit would speak in tongues. 

I told him that I thought my gift was spiritual discernment instead, based on I Corinthians 12.

Also, I could not - nor could I hear God actually speak to me - and asked him about it.


I asked this very politely, but he clenched his jaw, his face got red, and he ordered me out in the hallway. 

He pulled me out in the hallway and said "How dare I question him , and the bible, in front of everyone like that, especially as a woman,"  and "If you cannot speak in tongues or hear from God, then you're not spirit-filled, and worse, you have the spirit of Jezebel! Leave the church and do not come back until I admitted this."


So I left ... and never went back.


BTW, the "Spirit of Jezebel" isn't found anywhere in scripture - it's something charismatic evangelical men made up completely, in order to control/shame women when they speak up for themselves or won't do whatever men tell us to do 😉



I later became an atheist for a while, but returned to the faith after studying comparative religion in college, plus a talk with a Jewish rabbi who said it wasn't God that needed to change, it was my expectations of God, and gave myself an attitude adjustment.

At this point in my life, because of other spiritual things that have happened in my life that I can see now in hindsight, I have adjusted my faith.

For instance, I don't believe God rescues us and don't expect him to rescue us - but his presence near us can still be seen, if you look in the right places. 


I do waver, based on some life experiences - but other ones are so timely,  so overly coincidental, that I'm like "Is that you, winking at me?" 😂

Guess we'll find out ....


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